Transcript: General Odierno on CNN's "State of the Union" (28 June)

Days before US forces are supposed to withdraw from Iraqi cities, American commander General Raymond Odierno appeared on CNN's State of the Union. As we've noted many times, Odierno is a veteran in public relations. This was no exception, as he fudged the issue of withdrawal amidst the recent escalation of violence and bombings: "We’ll still be conducting significant operations outside of the cities and the belts around the major cities." Meanwhile, John King's hard-hitting interview style was highlighted in the final moments of the interview, as he turned to Odierno's encounter with TV satirist Stephen Colbert and closed with this assessment: "We close and say thank you to you, sir, we want to make sure you know you’re in our thoughts."

JOHN KING: Tuesday is the deadline for U.S. troops to pull out of bases in Iraq’s major cities and to turn major security operations over to Iraqi forces. It is without a doubt a major benchmark in the more than six-year war, and to some, a huge achievement. But even some U.S. generals say they would prefer more time in some cities, and there are worries the shift in power could bring a spike in violence. The man managing this delicate shift is the commander of U.S. forces in Iraq, General Ray Odierno, who joins us now from Camp Victory in Baghdad. Good morning to you, General, and thank you for your time.

A simple question off the top. Are the Iraqis ready for these awesome new responsibilities?

ODIERNO: I do believe they’re ready, John. They’ve been working towards this for a long time. And security remains good. We’ve seen constant improvement in the security force, we’ve seen constant improvement in governance. And I believe this is the time for us to move out of the cities and for them to take ultimate responsibility.

KING: Are you doing this based on military calculations or political calculations, in the sense that Prime Minister al-Maliki has said he wants the American troops out? President Obama has said he wants them on a path to get home as soon as possible. One of your own deputies, sir, Brigadier General John Murray, said this, “Sadr City is one we wanted. The Iraqi government said no, so now we are leaving.” Are there two or three of these areas where you wish you could keep U.S. troops a little bit longer?

ODIERNO: I think sometimes it’s about strategic advantage over tactical advantage. I think again, it’s important for us to be in line with the security agreement that we signed in December.

I think from a military and security standpoint, it’s time for us to move out of the cities. We’ll still be there providing training, advising, enablers for the Iraqi security forces. I believe they’re capable of doing this. We’ll still be conducting significant operations outside of the cities and the belts around the major cities. And I still believe that this will enable us to maintain the current security and stability situation here in Iraq.

KING: But do you have the flexibility? If you see a target of opportunity, if you see something that troubles you, do you have the flexibility to act? Or do you need to go to the Iraqis and ask permission and perhaps lose incredibly valuable time?

ODIERNO: Well, again, when we signed the security agreement, we agreed to abide by Iraqi sovereignty. So everything that we do today is transparent. Everything we do today and have been doing since the 1st of January is transparent to the Iraqi government. So we will continue to be transparent, but that does not limit our flexibility. We’ll continue to coordinate with them, and when necessary, we’ll conduct the operations that we need to with their approval.

KING: I want to get up, sir, and go over to the wall, because I want to show our viewers a map of the area. And I specifically want to pull out on a point, because we have seen some incidences, some would say an uptick in violence, down in Nasariyah on June 10th, deadly violence there. In Baghdad, a couple of bombings recently. And up in Kirkuk -- let me shrink the map a little bit -- we can see it all up in the Kirkuk area. Is there a pattern to this violence? Do you believe you’re being tested and the Iraqi security forces are being tested on the eve of this deadline?

ODIERNO: I think these are some extremist elements who are trying to bring attention to their movement that’s been fractured. They’re trying to use this timeframe and this date to first gain attention for themselves, and also to divert attention from the success of the Iraqi security forces.

We have not seen increased violence across the country. We still have low levels of overall violence. However, these high-profile attacks, all they have done is kill innocent civilians, and in fact, brought the air (ph) of Iraqi civilians against the terrorist groups.

KING: I want to also show you, sir, I am putting it up on our screen. I know you probably can’t see it, but I want to show the level of troops in Iraq. We began with 150,000 in the beginning, May 2003. The peak was 171,000 in October of 2007. We’re now at about 138,000 as we’re in June 2009. When we spoke two months ago, sir, I asked you on a scale of 1 to 10, how confident you were that all American troops would be out by the end of 2011. Are you still that confident, sir? Is that still a 10 on this morning?

ODIERNO: It is. And John, actually, we’re at 131,000 today, have been now for about a month. We’ll continue to draw down slowly and deliberately over this year. What’s good is I’ve been given the flexibility to make those decisions based on the security environment on the ground. I believe we’ll continue to slowly and deliberately withdraw our forces this year, but have enough forces here to ensure that we have successful parliamentary elections next January.

KING: What do you make then, sir, if you say you’re still very confident you will keep that, the former Iraqi national security adviser is quoted in the New York Times just today saying we need to extend the status of forces agreement to 2020 or 2025. I just hope Prime Minister al-Maliki realizes we don’t have competent security forces yet.

ODIERNO: Again, I would argue there’s a difference between conducting internal counter-insurgency operations and being able to have external capacity. And I think they will have to make some decisions in the future what they want to do in terms of their external capacity. But I think that’s something that has to be discussed later on. And there’s many ways for them to do that. They can get assistance from the United States, they can get assistance from Egypt, they can get assistance from many countries. But that’ll be a decision that has to be made, in my mind, a couple of years from now.

KING: I want to also give our viewers, sir, a glimpse at the U.S. casualties. 4,317 U.S. men and women have died in Iraq over these past six years, 486 in the first year. And you see the violence and the death toll as it goes up, 95 fatalities so far in 2009. As you move into this new posture, General, are U.S. troops safer in that you’re pulling back from the major cities? Or might one argue they could conceivably be more at risk, because if they are called upon for major operations, it would be after some tragic or traumatic event that the Iraqi security forces can’t handle?

ODIERNO: Well, we’ll maintain full coordination with the Iraqi security forces inside of the cities. If they need us, our movements will be coordinated. We’ll continue to have intelligence capacity inside the cities. So I’m confident that we’ll be able to maintain the situational awareness in order to protect our troops. And our goal is to continue to lower, obviously, our casualties. We’ve continued to do that, and our goal is obviously to eliminate all casualties over time here.

KING: We’re having a military conversation, but in a sense, the success of your mission in the final years will be dependent on the political situation in Iraq. What is your take on Prime Minister Maliki? Is he up to this task? And I ask in the context that you have from time to time have been critical of his government and had to privately go to his government when it has cracked down on its political opponents. Is he a strong man or is he a democratic leader?

ODIERNO: Well, I think, first off, I think this is, you know, working in the situation, he’s had to establish a brand new democratic government while trying to maintain stability and security inside of Iraq is a very difficult task. And I think he has continued to develop his government. I think he has continued to develop his security forces, and I think they made great progress over the last -- over the last couple of years.

So I think from that viewpoint, he has done a very good job. Obviously, there’s still many political issues that have to be worked out here. Reconciliation is one. Arab-Kurd tensions, intra-Shia, Sunni-Shia. Those are all political issues that still have to be worked here. And I believe they’re in the process of doing that. And as we move to the national elections coming up here very shortly, those will be the main issues that are addressed in the lead-up to the elections.

KING: Do you think it’s possible there could be a referendum in Iraq that says you have to leave sooner?

ODIERNO: It’s unclear. We’ll see. We’re still waiting to see if, in fact, they will conduct a referendum. That will be up to the Council of Representatives in the Iraqi government as we move forward.

KING: I assume you think that would be a bad idea?

ODIERNO: Well, again -- again, my concern is moving on with our mission here. I’m focused on sustaining our mission here in 2011, our first milestone being the national election, and then continuing to improve security here so Iraqis can take over full responsibility by the end of 2011.

KING: I want to ask you a bit about the situation in neighboring Iran. We have talked from time to time about Iran meddling dangerously in your business, allowing weapon systems to come across, IEDs to come across, perhaps even training some of those who are trying to kill American men and women in Iraq. Has that situation in terms of Iran coming across the border in ways, or training people across the border, sending dangerous equipment across the border, is that better now than if we were having this conversation in the past? Or is it about the same?

ODIERNO: Well, I would say they still continue to interfere inside of Iraq. They still continue to conduct training. They still continue to pay surrogates to conduct operations in Iraq. It might be a bit less than it was, but I think that’s more based on the success of the security forces here than it is on Iran’s intent.

ODIERNO: So, again, I think they’re still attempting to interfere. They’re still attempting to have undue influence inside of Iraq. And we continue to deal with that.

We have made great progress on that front, working with the Iraqi security forces.

KING: And as you know, sir, there are some in the Congress back here in the United States and others back here in the United States who have urged more assistance to the demonstrators, to protesters in Iran.

And some have said that, you know, we have the capability, technologically, if we wanted to, say, increase Internet access, to use technology, from your position in Iraq along the Iranian border, to somehow help increase Internet access, technical communications, text messaging.

Have you been asked, sir, to do anything?

And do you have that capability if you were asked?

ODIERNO: Well, first, based on the Iraqi security agreement, we are -- we are only concerned with protecting Iraq’s security instability. And based on that agreement, I’m not authorized to do anything outside the borders of Iraq. So I think I’ll leave it at that.

KING: OK, sir. Let me come back to this important deadline. You believe you can keep this deadline and stay on the path to get U.S. troops home on schedule in 2011.

Let me ask you this question, what is your biggest worry? When do you say, OK, am I wrong here? What’s your biggest worry?

ODIERNO: Well, again, I think -- I think it has to do with if we see a breakdown in stability in Iraq; if we see a consistent increase in violence; if we see that the Iraqi security forces aren’t able to respond; if we have some event that it caused some instability, then that would cause us to, maybe, after we’re asked by the government of Iraq, to help.

I don’t see that right now. I believe we’re on the right path. And I want to make sure you understand that. I believe we are still on the right path. I think security and stability is headed in the right direction as we move through 30 June. KING: And I’ve used this test with you in the past, so let me ask it this way. On a scale of one to 10, how ready, in your view, are the Iraqi security forces to take on this added mission?

ODIERNO: Yes, I would just say they’re at a very -- they have improved significantly over the last 2 1/2 years. We’ve seen incredible increase in their capacity and capability. They have proven it in combat operations. They have proven their flexibility and adaptable. So I am much more confident than I’ve ever been in the Iraqi security forces.

KING: I want to close, sir, in our last minute, on a lighter note.

You had a guest recently. Stephen Colbert came over to spend a little bit of time. And you were ordered, I think, by a very high authority, to give him a bit of a military haircut, shall we say, an unorthodox military haircut.

We’re showing a picture to our viewers, right now, of you applying the shave to Stephen Colbert. Take us through that moment.

ODIERNO: Well, again, you know, Stephen said he wanted to join the Army. He went through basic training. So we told him, if he really wanted to be a member of the armed forces, he had to have the right haircut. And the president agreed with me on that. So we gave him a haircut.

I’ve been watching him lately. I think it’s time for him -- he needs a trim, I think, so maybe we need to give him another haircut.

KING: You ran him through a little basic training. Is he in shape?

ODIERNO: He did pretty good. He was pretty impressive. Now, it was a little bit unorthodox basic training, but he looked like he did pretty well.

KING: All right. We’ll laugh -- we’ll laugh at that. But, as we close and say thank you to you, sir, we want to make sure you know you’re in our thoughts, and the men and women serving under you are in our thoughts and our prayers as you go forward; first, this big deadline in 48 hours, and then, of course, the important weeks and months ahead.

General Ray Odierno, thanks as always for spending some time with us.

ODIERNO: Thank you very much, John.

KING: Take care, sir.

And as we take a quick break, a snapshot of troops serving in Baghdad, the capital city, of course, of Iraq.

Today's Bush's-Glorious-Iraq-Surge Story: We Can Kick North Korea's Butt

In the never-ending fantasy game of Why George Bush Really, Really Got It Right on Iraq, even as the casualty level for US troops reach their highest point since September 2008, former Bush official Peter Feaver takes today's top prize:

I see [Obama] as having slightly more options now for dealing with North Korea than he otherwise might have precisely because Bush reversed the trajectory in Iraq. To be sure, the progress in Iraq is still fragile and reversible -- and there are ominous signs of that reversibility with the uptick in violence in the months since Obama codified a rigid withdrawal timeline. But the success of Bush’s surge strategy (crediting, of course, the courageous efforts of General Petraeus, General Odierno, and Ambassador Crocker, not to mention the brave men and women deployed in Iraq, who actually implemented the strategy) has gone some way to restoring America’s global strategic leverage. At a minimum, it seems to me inarguable that our strategic leverage is greater now than it would have been if we continued on the old trajectory.

I've read Feaver's gung-ho piece a dozen times for a sign of logic, but it appears that there is none, only a glowing path from soldiers in Baghdad to dropping bombs on Pyongyang:

The truth is that the availability of U.S. ground forces is at most a secondary factor in limiting our options in North Korea. The South Korean army provides all of the ground forces needed to defeat North Korea, but only at horrific cost -- a cost that probably no South Korean leader would ever choose unless North Korea launched its own unprovoked invasion. Without an active and willing South Korean ally committed to the fight, there is no viable ground-based option for the United States. In other words, our military options for North Korea are air-based and our air options are not as constrained by the Iraq (and now Afghan) surge.